Silence - Any feelings and thoughts

[free2be]

Hi Everyone
I wonder if I can ask - I am currently exploring silence. If anyone is interested in sharing their experiences, thoughts and (or) feelings relating to silence within a counselling relationship, as a client and (or) as a therapist, or supervisee / supervisor I would be most interested.

I have a very personal interest in this area and I am struggling to find academic writing to support me in my exploration...any feedback most welcome. Or do you have any recommendations regarding books / articles?

Thanks for taking the time to read this post
Warm wishes
Free2be:thanks:

[Fluffy Flowers]

I'm not a fan of silence at all. I always fill it with talking about garbage and making a joke and moving on. I find that often silences are quite expectant and that my T is waiting for me to say something and I never know what to say.

Just occassionally, if I'm feeling really detached from everything, then silences don't bother me, but that's because I'm lost in my head, and then I find that my T breaks the silences, probably because I'm not reachable.

[mel]

Perhaps the literature of infant/mother relationship could offer more insight. It could have something to do with wanting to be mirrored to see who we are. What we are.
Like an infant sees/finds him/herself in mothers eyes and voice.
When there is silence the client could find it difficult to know whether s/he is 'good' or 'bad' as s/he cannot read the counsellor. There is no mirror? The client could also feel 'left'. Like the baby feels left allone when mother is not visible.
Not sure if that makes any sense.

mel

[Jenny]

:wow: Mel I'd never thought of that and that's certainly food for thought!

Personally I have been brought up in a house where my dad was very silent and my mum was very vocal, filling in any gaps with 'rubbish'. I have always taken my mum's view and tried to fill in gaps, talk about anything just to make sure that something is said. But through therapy i think i realised that silence is actually ok.. it's ok to not have to talk all the time. It's ok to sit quietly and just 'be'. I did this many times with my therapist and it felt ok, safe.

I guess it depends on the relationship though. I wouldn't have done it towards the beginning of our therapeutic relationship because i guess i wanted to be a 'good client' but as that need reduced, so did my need to fill in all the gaps.

On another note a rather sadistic part of me wanted to see how she'd react when i didn't fill in the gap!! I mean, because i was on a a few counselling courses myself i was learning more and more about the use of silences within the therapeutic relationship. One thought being that when there's a silence the client may feel this need to fill the gap and sometimes interesting stuff comes out in these times. So i guess a part of me wanted to take some of that control away from her and not give her the pleasure of me spilling my guts just cos she was being silent!

:hiding:

HA i hope i don't come across as totally twisted, but am just being honest!
:grouphug:

[Old Wolf]

Just a quick reply - There are two people in the room which means for there to be silence neither of them are talking !!??

[free2be]

Thanks for your honest and genuine responses. They are most helpful. Fluffy Flowers, Mel, Jenny and Old wolf I want to take some time to absorb all of your responses. I'm really interested in silence as in therapeutic group experiences I am very quiet. There is always a lot going on within me at these times. Although I am not verbally communicating, I am processing many differing emotions and working hard in each moment. There are times for me when this is a pleasurable experience and times when I feel emotions at the other end of the continum and every point inbetween.

For me, in personal therapy I find silence really beneficial. I feel it gives me the space and time I need to nuture the emotions and feelings that are emerging within me. I can identify with what you have said Jenny that "through therapy i think i realised that silence is actually ok.. it's ok to not have to talk all the time. It's ok to sit quietly and just 'be'. I did this many times with my therapist and it felt ok, safe."

Each client I am in relationship with I feel has their own unique experience of silence, both in the moment and thier past experiences. I am mindful of holding clients in these moments. And what I am feeling as a result of your resposes to my requests for information regarding silence is that it appears to be an individual experience for each person.

Mel, your post makes complete sense and has provided me with another aspect of silence within the relationship to think about. Jenny, I feel more trusting of you for your honest response. Thank you.

If you feel you have anything alse you are willing to share please do as your shared experiences are most helpful.
:thanks:
Free2be

[Cherrypie]

There have many experiences of slience in my counselling.

At the start it was a source of great difficulty and I couldn't understand why the dialougue was not conventionaly 2 way. The gaps seemed an endless embarrassing desert. Just when was my therapist going to give his opinion or tell me about his day too?? I began to understand..it was all about me.. I just have to be careful to put the gaps back in with friends!

The longest silence has been when I have felt utterly lost and bereft but by this time there was comfort in just being there.

The most recent silence came because I tried to speak but the words just wouldn't come.. I was in fact overwhelmed with emotion and actually felt I had lost the power of speech. Literally dumbstruck, a really bizarre experience. I did not know where to start or how to express the depth of my feeling. I didn't even know if there were words invented for it. I stumbled on my words, jumbled them up, sounded ridiculous so I stopped for a bit to breathe and try again but when it kept happening I just gave into it and stopped speaking.. I felt despair at my inability to express myself but seemed to have no choice but to let the silence be..

I will be returning to this subject tonight in fact. Try again to express the inexpressible so wish me luck!! I think it was either overwhelming anger or hurt.. I'm really not sure.. we shall see..

xx

[Old Wolf]

Cherrypie,
I was going to wish you luck but then I noticed the time line so will just say "Hope it went well and that you now have increased insight."
BW
Old Wolf

[Cherrypie]

Well no actually.. by the time I got in there I somehow forgot what I wanted to talk about... :doh: That will teach me to have plans! I realise this may have been some kind of avoidance but honestly not conciously..

The problem is I have so much to talk about I don't generally know what to choose as most important! I could use an hour a day.. All day, everyday! Silences are definitely the rarer moments!!

Thankyou OW.

xx

[Old Wolf]

Hi Cherrypie,
Sorry to hear that. It isn't only silence which can avoid things. Sometimes having too much to say can be a way of avoiding talking about what is really the problem - for some having too much to do, "keeping busy" is a way of avoiding thinking/talking/looking at something. Perhaps, for you, it might benefit to try to quiet the chattering mind and explore what you are not saying?? Most real avoidance borders on or is unconscious. Is the stuff you find yourself going on about mainly "diary" stuff - the relating of the weeks events, that sort of thing? Do you keep yourself "busy" with "no time to think"? Avoidance isn't about not saying things it's about not thinking them,not re-experiencing them!! Just realised - this is sounding like an inquisition!!!
BW
Old Wolf

[IndieSoul]

Interesting. I had a few silences in my sessions, I think it was because I had run out of things to talk about. At the time, especially the first couple sessions, I was really sad. I never talked about this with my counselor, because it really didn't seem important to me then. I thought of it as something that everyone experienced, and I just had to deal with it.
Silences were really awkward, because it seemed wierd to just sit there and do nothing.


:hippy:

[Jenny]

Thinking about it slightly differently, in one of my TA training weekends the tutor held a 'group therapy session' for about 10 minutes, where she told us that she was going out of the room and then when she re-entered she was going to be our 'therapist' for the session. I was quite excited about this as I'd never experienced group therapy.

Anyway, she came back in and said NOTHING. She sat down and not one word. It was really interesting how the different people in the group reacted - some sat silently, some tried to fill in the gap and 'rescue' the group, some rebelled, etc.

I personally became really angry towards the tutor/therapist. I thought to myself she's playing a game with us. I didn't want to get sucked in to her game playing.. i sat silently but i felt the anger rise.

Several years later i can see a little more clearly that this definitely reflects my family situation. My dad was always very silent and had the 'power' in the family. And it's interesting that i was angry towards the tutor - i couldn't imagine going for therapy where the therapist says nothing at all. I mean, pay me enough and i'll sit there for 50 minutes being silent, no problem!! But maybe this goes deeper too.. i mean, maybe i'm angry that someone who has a role should fulfill their role, so for example my parents had a role to play and maybe i feel let down that they didn't quite fulfill it (i don't mean to sound ungrateful, they did their "best")

I think silence in the therapy room can be really helpful.. a lot can go on for people during silence. And it's important to explore what goes on for us during the silence too.. i think we can learn a lot from it

[Cherrypie]

Sorry to veer off slightly but just to quick reply to OW helpful question (not inquisition) it might benefit to try to quiet the chattering mind and explore what you are not saying?? Thankyou for this OW I have been really thinking about it. I think I can tend to go round the houses when things are difficult to say.. I know it really and I do often try to be direct as I can even through great embarrassment but it is just so difficult to do and I'm never sure whats the most relevant stuff.. Next time I shall really concentrate on trying just what you have suggested..

Thankyou

Cherrypie

[Old Wolf]

[QUOTE=Cherrypie;2411]but it is just so difficult to do

Suggestions, i.e.by me, are easily made. Being there, doing "the work" rarely is. Perhaps this shouldn't have been a suggestion as to what to do but rather an idea offered to see if it triggered new ideas/inspiration for you.
BW
Old Wolf

[mel]

For me, it is in the silence that I can hear myself[ves].
And that can be very frightening.

[shrinknightmare]

Here are two experiences of mine, I hate silence. It would make me not want to come back.

I had to see a professor pysch for a 2nd opinion, she would ask a question, I would answer and then silence felt like about 5 minutes. I started looking around the room, playing with the ring on my finger, scratching my back and then doing it all again in between questions.

I hate the silence game. It was painful.

She would say ".................. says you have lost a lot of weight" i say "I don't think so" then silence .................................................. .......

She would say ",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, says you are depressed" I say "I don't think so, then silence ........................................

It went on like this for an hour!!!!!!!!!!!! Next time I think I will bring a magazine in to read in between questions. Hopefully there will not be a next time.


and the other one


He was absolutely horrible. His first question is I heard that you recently attempted suicide, how did that make you feel. Then I wasn't quick enough to answer, so he starts offering answers. I was not happy being there in the first place and this made me feel worse. I thought he could have started off with some small talk.

Then he calls me an "Active Resister" and tells me that I have made every attempt to avoid going there to see him. He talking like that only made me feel worse. Then he continues asking proforma questions such as how have you been sleeping, have you lost or gained weight etc. But he doesn't really listen to my answers and goes on to the next question, then sometimes he asks the same question twice. There were moments were nobody was saying anything at all. I thought it is not my job to fill the silence, so I watch my foot tapping on the carpet. Then I try to find the hidden clock but couldn't find it. Then I slide up my sleeve and look at my watch and got caught out. He says "Now you are looking at your watch". Only 10 minutes had passed. I look at his business card and notice that he is a psychologist. He then asks me to give him a score out of 10, he says 0 means excellent and 10 means "I want to be dead". I tell him 8, he then gets upset so I up it to 9 and I said that I would rather go to the dentist. He then asks me about my dogs, as it is a hobby, but I am so angry with him, that I didn't really want to answer and gave him short answers, why didn't he ask this at the start. He then tells me he is a psychologist, I told him that I knew that because I had seen his business card, which he then puts right near my face and asks if I want one, I tell him no and he keeps persisting. He tells me about the after hours service, and I said I would never use it because the people are mandated to tell others about anything serious that you talk about, he agrees and says fair enough. He then tells me that he is on call during the weekend. I tell him that I will be fine my parents are coming to visit, he asks if that is a good thing, obviously it is. He also has trouble mentioning my daughter's name, she died earlier this year and sort of whispers it. The only two good things he said to me was "We cannot make you come here" and "You can go now". As soon as he told me that I could go, I was out of there so fast I was just about running. I heard him say "Do you want me to show you out" but by that time I was gone. The next day I cancelled that next appointment he made. After seeing him I felt worse. He also mentioned that it must have taken me awhile to get to know the other counsellor, I didn't tell him that I clicked straight away.


I see silence as a game, to see who can be silent for the longest. I figure if they are doing the silence thing, I might as well go and talk to the dog. Just glad I didn't have to pay for those appointments.

[Cherrypie]

I read your post shrinknightmare and I hope you don't find it too challenging that I wondered why you would go to therapy and play a game?

It is to help you afterall isn't it? I assume you are not being made to go.. I wonder how would it feel for you to see your therapist as on your side as it sounded from your writing as though you feel they are looking to trick you? Maybe this is from a bad experience of therapy?

You said they are doing the silence thing as though it is intended to irritate you. There may be silences at times but your therapist is surely making it clear that this space is not for him to fill with trivia but for you to talk about the things that are making life difficult perhaps? It is your hour.. I also wondered perhaps if you were paying it would be different..I had free counselling for a while and when I had to pay it certainly speeded me up and concentrated my conversation!! Ha. Maybe the fact that you see the silence as some kind of battle of wills tells you something about you though.. I think every minute of the hour can be used to learn something..even the quiet ones..

Your posting name is interesting too and I wonder why you chose it...

I am going to start a thread on this!!

xx

[shrinknightmare]

Actually I was made to go in both of those experiences I talked about.

Firstly my usual shrink sent me to the prof shrink for a second opinion. Before that appointment about an hour before, I had them giving me hassles at work, wanting me to work the bushfires when I was not up to it, I had the boss yelling at me just because I asked for a roster change. Then I turn up for this appointment in tears because of work, and the women just stares at me and doesn't say anything, what is the point???? I really needed to talk to someone about that and she just did silence games. I even asked my usual shrink if she was sending to this person and was she going to do silence games?

The other one was where my counsellor was on holidays and she sent me to see this guy, and I didn't want to see him, but I was forced to go. He did the silence as well and I don't like it.

I know that if I ever have to go before someone again and they just sit there and say nothing, I will just get up and walk out. I get no benefit from sitting there in silence.

[Cherrypie]

I have not had the experience of having to go to a therapist shrinknightmare and that must not be easy if you do not feel like being there. Obviously that does change the dynamics of the relationship. I have learnt in my limited training that for therapy to be of use the 2 people involved, therapist and client ideally need to be in psychological contact and that means that you are a willing participant. I don't know how it can be helpful if you do not want to be there.

I am wondering is it that you need your therapist to start you off with talking? To encourage you? On the occassion you arrived in tears I wonder if you felt that her quiet response was uncaring? I would like to have thought that she had shown you some signs that she was listening to you and that what you had to say would be heard and understood? It seems her silent response was not helpful for you and perhaps just made you cross. It seems that not all clients fit all therapists so perhaps you did just have a personality clash? I am sorry this was not a good or helpful experience for you.

When you say silence game do you think they know what to ask but are not asking purposefully?

I hope you don't mind me asking these things but I am genuinely quite interested in your experience. It seems such a shame to be given this time and then not gain anything from it. I can see how from your point of view it just does seem like a waste of time. I wonder though if nothing else you have learnt something in that you now know quite clearly what you do and don't want from a counsellor. Maybe you could express that if you ever have to go again..

x

[shrinknightmare]

I just thought her quiet response was that she had no people skills. She didn't even introduce herself when I was in the room with her. It started off with her just staring at me for a few minutes. Then she said, are you upset because of having to see me, I told her I was upset because work was giving me a hard time. Then silence for a few minutes. I thought she would have then asked "what has been happening at work". but she didn't there was just silence.
You cannot expect a person that you have just met to just start talking unless you give them some encouragement.

When I see people like this I am just glad that my parents when they went for counselling they had someone who actually talked to them and did not just sit in silence. My parents went for counselling over my daughters death. I have talked to some other people about this silence and they have said, I should have just got up and walked out of the room.

The lady I usually see, who work have sent me to see, is quite chatty, talking back and forth going both ways, and thats what I prefer.

[Cherrypie]

I just thought her quiet response was that she had no people skills. This made me laugh...I didn't know if it was supposed to! Maybe you are right, maybe she doesn't!

Or maybe she didn't want to set the agenda, maybe she wanted you to pick the topic of discussion as it is your hour afterall.. If she had said 'how is work?' but all week you had wanted to go in and discuss your family then she would have been guiding the conversation away from where you needed to be and deciding on where the session went. Some therapists believe that it is the client that should set the agenda. Afterall, surely the client, you, know best what is bothering you and what is most important to discuss? I agree though that when you encounter this kind of unusual relating it can feel quite unsettling..its possibly something you can get used when you realise the reason behind it but if it just continues to make you feel uncomfortable its obviously just not for you!

I wonder if therapists ought to explain to a client why they are not making small talk as many do not..that might have helped you perhaps..or maybe not. I don't think clients are always given enough information about different kinds of therapy and what to expect in a counselling session.

I am glad you also have a therapist who you do find helpful. Hopefully you will be seeing her instead and not the other one!

x

[shrinknightmare]

Forget to mention that when I went into the room I had strong suicidal feelings and during the silence I was thinking about my plan and how I was going to carry it out. Bullying at work is one of my major triggers.

This woman also had my file, so she knew my issues.

When I left that office I bought some things to help me and made an attempt that night.

Then when my normal shrink saw me again she told she was going on holidays and that the other lady I saw was prepared to see me. I told her that I was not prepared to see this woman again and told her to write on my file "NO SILENCE GAMES".

I really don't see what you achieve when you have someone sitting in front of you in a distressed state and just sit there and ask a question have the person answer it and then just say nothing for about 5 minutes. Meanwhile the person is getting more and more distressed and the person is looking at things around the room, because they are so bored of sitting there and doing nothing. :bash:

[Cherrypie]

Hi there Shrinknightmare,

I can really sense your frustration about what you see as 'silence games' in the therapy room. I feel I should apologise to you as I have been exploring the topic of silence in a fairly lighthearted way and I am not sure that I have been fully understanding of just how distressing you find silences in therapy.

I have no idea of course what your personal therapist was trying to achieve and as you say she may well have no people skills and be a terrible therapist. It does seem a shame you could not have shared just how distressed you were feeling that day. It sounds like you really needed someone to connect who you felt comfortable with and this lady's approach was not helpful for you.

Generally speaking though, and this of course is just my opinion, I feel that therapists train not to play games with people but because they really care about people and they want to ease distress and help make peoples lives better.

I do hope you continue to get help from the therapist you find most helpful.

xCherrypie

[Old Wolf]

Hi Shrinknightmare,
I’m sorry to hear that you’re having this traumatic experience of counselling. It can’t be helping to form a good and trusting relationship between you and your therapist and it is within such a relationship that I think silence can have some powerful benefits. When it works it does so by creating a sort of empty space in the mind that allows and encourages “stuff” lying just below the conscious level to bubble to the surface. The problem arises, I suspect, because you are unable to fully trust the therapist you are with. If you had been able to trust you would have spoken about how your mind was filling with suicidal thoughts and been able to explore this more fully with your therapist. Even the fact that you find the silence distressing is a point well worth exploring.
When it feels that silence is something “being done to you” rather than something you both experience together it is easily perceived as a form of bullying and this, from what you have said, is a major issue for you. One thing I would say here is that silence is rarely a completely comfortable place to be for the therapist either.
Another thing that can happen within silence is that feelings become magnified to the point where they can’t be ignored which is what contributes to the feeling of discomfort. However, in a good therapeutic relationship these are the things that then get talked about. So, in a session when you feel stronger/are more trusting of your therapist try talking about whatever it is that is in your mind, - suicidal thoughts, - the fact that you experience this as bullying, - that you feel the therapist is playing games with you, - that you find it distressing, - all these are valid and relevant and will find value in being talked through.
The problem when the therapeutic relationship is not well formed can be, and I think for you is, that it is difficult to say these things for fear of how the therapist might respond, especially if you are expecting to be bullied. A good therapist does not bully or criticise but until a good relationship is formed it is hard to trust this will be the case. Not knowing how your therapist might respond is a part of the “unknown” which for many can be a very frightening place to be.
When I am working with a client I have a simple rule about silence. If the client seems to be comfortable with it e.g. appears to be using it to process thoughts I bite my tongue and hold the silence. If, however, it appears it is in anyway distressing for the client I do not allow it to continue unchecked, I would break it by, perhaps, asking what the client is finding distressing i.e. making it O.K. to talk about it.
From what I read here it seems that your relationship with your normal therapist has been undermined by frequent interruptions, that it feels “unsafe” perhaps? If you can find the courage it could be that the relationship would benefit from being challenged, tested by you – don’t wait to be asked, take control by saying how you are feeling about things like the holiday breaks, the silences. Not just that you don’t like them but why you don’t, the feelings such things generate for and within you. Lets not pretend, this will not be an easy route for you but if you can risk it bit by bit you could find it very rewarding!
Any way, here’s hoping that your experience of counselling soon improves.
BW
Old Wolf

[shrinknightmare]

The silence issues were on the first appointment with a psych that I was sent for an evaluation, I find it very strange that you could meet someone for the first time and not even introduce yourself and just stare at them. Then when that person (me) is looking around the room, looking at their watch, playing with the ring on their finger, this would tell me, (who is not a counsellor) that that person is not comfortable and also does not wish to be there. If I were the counsellor I would have then tried a different approach.

My regular psych told me that she does not mind a bit of silence but not when it goes on and on and on. I am just glad that when my parents went for counselling over my daughter's suicide that they had someone who they were comfortable with and who talked to them.

My mum went for some more counselling later and she had a male counsellor and he didn't talk much at all and she didn't like it either, this was a first appointment. She preferred the first one, who was supplied by my work. She wasn't able to see her again as she lives interstate and my work usually only allows immediate family counselling but because of the severity they allowed my parents to be counselled as well. My story made world wide news.

Silence does not work for everyone.

[summer_rain]

Ive got to say I hate silence... I mean it retrospect there are times when the counselor can probably see that you need to think about what u've just said or what u've just heard but I went to see someone recently and she just sat there and said nothing... and I thought well ur not saying anything, im not exploring any of my feelings, or thinking about any of what u or I have said... so basically we are just two people sitting in a room in silence.... ? Not helpful :(

[shrinknightmare]

I agree with you Summer Rain!!!!!

I read on another board where someone go so fed up with the silent treatment, that they took over and asked themselves questions and answered them, it was so funny. Another person said out loud "what more does she want me to say", she said felt really silly doing it but it got the counsellor talking.

[IndieSoul]

We'll have a few short silences - I'll stop talking and get kind of anxious about it, so I'll look around the room or mess with the handle on my purse. I think she can sense that silences make me nervous because she usually starts talking after I do.

[ell]

I'm not a very talkative person..and I find it hard in therapy, I forget things, find it hard to think of things to talk about. The last therapist I saw found this very frustrating. We would often sit in silence. So one day, she decided to act like me. We basically sat in silence for nearly the whole session. I guess this was a way of venting her frustration and for me to experience what is was like for her. I felt very bad about this session because I felt her anger at me, but this wasn't something I could help, I was trying my best. And it is difficult to sit with another person in a room in silence. :ohwell:

[mel]

So one day, she decided to act like me. We basically sat in silence for nearly the whole session. I guess this was a way of venting her frustration and for me to experience what is was like for her. I felt very bad about this session because I felt her anger at me, but this wasn't something I could help, I was trying my best. And it is difficult to sit with another person in a room in silence

Have you told your therapist about how that made you feel? I think it is important to share your fears and phantasies with her. Especially what went through your mind when she sat in silnece with you. In your mind she was angry and did this to hurt you. Perhaps her reasons were more benign than you think...
To give someone silnece can, for example, also mean to give someone space. Space to be and space to feel.