Recording Counselling Sessions

[Jenny]

What are your thoughts on this?

As a counsellor - do you need to record sessions for supervision or are notes/self reflection enough? Would you want the sessions to be recorded?

As a client - how would you feel about being taped every session? Would you still feel 'free' to talk openly or would it hinder you in some way?

I have my own thoughts and experiences of this and will post them tomorrow when I have a bit more time..just thought I'd start this off to get your feedback and to remind me!

[IndieSoul]

As I was watching the movie "Sybil", I noticed that the Dr. recorded their sessions. I wouldn't like it, personally. One reason is that I don't like the sound of my voice, so knowing that someone could hear it over again would make me feel less free about what I would say. I just like to go in, sit down (or lie down :)), and talk freely and openly about whatever comes to mind, without editing what I'm saying.

[Jenny]

Well I had a rather strange experience of this...

When i first started counselling my counsellor talked through the usual, i.e. confidentiality, etc. She gave me a written contract too but from what i remember she never mentioned that she was recording every session.

A few weeks down the line i walked in to the room and she made a point of going over to the tape recorder and turning it on. She then asked something, like 'how are you' or something, i don't know but i was very defensive and said "are you recording me!?". She replied 'yes' and told me that she had told me this in my first session and that it was in the written contract. I didn't want to contradict her so just kept quiet and got through the session. When i got home i checked the contract and it didn't say anything about her recording every session.. it did however say something about "any recorded material will be deleted" (or something). I didn't realise that meant that every session was recorded.

A few weeks later I had a really horrible dream about there being a third person in the counselling room so i told her my dream and then brought up the whole tape recorder thing. She didn't really say much about it apart from telling me (again) that she had told me about it.

It wasn't until about 6 months down the line that i managed to pluck up the courage to tell her (again!) that i wasn't happy about the tape recorder. Don't get me wrong though, the actual tape recorder didn't bother me that much.. yes it was strange but i didn't care about being recorded.. i cared more about her reaction to my questioning it! This time when i raised the question she said "it's not negotiable". I remember those words like a kick in the teeth. I wasn't asking her to negotiate.. i was trying to tell her how i was feeling about it! I felt like a little child, asking for an extra 10 minutes before going to bed but the parents saying no it's not negotiable. Except i wasn't asking for the extra 10 minutes.. i was asking to talk about it. I realised then that she wasn't going to discuss it so I left it.

About a year later (last June) we were having a real heart to heart about something (well, not sure if that's the right word) and i told her about how i felt when she said 'its not negotiable' and she denied ever saying that!!!!!! Argh, what could i say/do?! I ended up getting really angry at her and actually told her that seeing as she had every session recorded, surely she could go back to this very first session where she apparently told me about the recorder, and find it again! She then told me she only keeps the recordings for 1 week and records over them with the following session...believe me, if i had heard this i WOULD have remembered it.

Anyway it's unfortunate really because i dont particularly have anything against being recorded but i do have something against not being able to talk about it. Even if it was 'not negotiable' that doesn't mean we can't talk about my feelings about it, surely!? And of course i also think it should be made VERY clear right at the beginning about being recorded.. if by some tiny strange change she did tell me and i forgot, then i also think it should be backed up in writing clearly in the contract.

[andyhp]

Hmm...'big' subject for many reasons.

It should go without saying that before any session is recorded the full and informed consent of the client is necessary. The client must be made aware of why the therapist wants to record, who will have access to the recording, how and where the recording (tape/disc) will be stored and what will happen to it after it has 'served its purpose'. If say it is stated that the therapist wants to record as part of their training then the client should be fully aware who may listen to it, if it is only supposed to be 2 tutors and possibly an external examiner then it would be a breach of the client's confidentiality if that recording was then also played to a case discussion group, or indeed to anyone else. Likewise the recording or any part of it should not later be used for any other purpose than was first explained to the client e.g. as part of research. It must also be noted that not only should the client's anonymity be protected but possibly that of 'others' mentioned in the recording. Written consent should be obtained but this is tricky too. If you have to show this to the assessors, say on your course, you need to tell the client you may not be able to fully protect their confidentiality as the assessor would know the client's identity too!

Personally I don't like recording meetings. For me it's like having someone else in the room. I know I can get stilted and be vetting my responses 'for the tape'. It was a necessary and useful part of my training though especially as we used video and not just audio. Since training I've not had to record a meeting so I haven't and so far my personal reflections and/or notes have been 'enough' for my supervisor/s. I am aware that there have been occasions when supervisors have asked or even insisted that a therapist records sessions.

A lot of trainees and more experienced therapists find videos of 'famous' therapists a valuable training aid. Without it we wouldn't have had the unmeasurable pleasure of the Gloria videos. (If anyone has seen the second one with Kathy as client and Rogers, Shostrom and Lazarus as therapists you also should read the thread on what to wear as a therapist or as a client!!!)

Having said I don't like it...maybe with client consent it wouldn't be so bad for us all to do it now and then. After all why shouldn't we have to 'account' for what we do and be 'seen' to do it? Interesting!!

Aside form role plays while training I've never had the pleasure of being a recorded client. The only thing I would say to anyone asked to do it as a client is say yes if you want to and you have been fully informed and say no if you don't.

Forgot to add some therapists will record and give the client a copy at the end of each session. This is probably more common in CBT.

[Cherrypie]

As a client I often wished I could record the sessions myself as sometimes I had a total blank afterwards about what had been discussed.. in fact one of my best sessions is a blank to me and I so wanted to remember the words.. My memory is not good unfortunately so although I can usually recall the feeling but not always the words..

I am not sure how I would feel about being taped regularly.. I am suspicious about the reason and the whys? Is it to protect against being sued or is it for training puroses.. I think it can be intrusive and feel it really ought to be a choice. Well I suppose you did have some kind of choice in that you could have left her over it but its always hard to start again even after only a few sessions. I wasn't ever taped in my personal counselling (that I know of!! A jot of paranoia creeping in there!!)... maybe I would be pleased he would want listen to me all over again!! Maybe I would worry my words would be being unpicked... Hmm... Not sure about this one but an interesting topic thankyou Jenny!

As a trainee I hate listening to the recordings!! I sound really borrrrrrring (not sure how i want to sound... jolly wouldn't suit either would it!)and I do think its hard not to have some awareness that you are being 'watched' by the tape even if it is only for myself in the end!


xCherrypie

[mary]

I hope i am not getting recorded or video taped i really can't remember what i signed for as i was very nervous. While i can see usefullness of it i don't think i would be very open or be able to really concentrate knowing i was taped Something to bring up with my T next time.

[Old Wolf]

Personally I think if you signed anything you sould be given a copy to keep for your own reference. I would suggest you would be well within your rights to ask for one. Certainly ask as to whether or not you are being taped/recorded. I think I wouldn't like being taped although we did that in training which was useful (i.e. when we "counselled" each other!)

[andyhp]

Hi (paranoid!) Mary,

I think Old wolf is right you definitely should have a copy of whatever you signed be it a therapy contract or, if seperate, a recording one.

Personally I think that even if someone had signed a contract that permitted recording it should still be made clear at the start of every meeting that recording was 'going on' and that the 'permission' should be reviewed anyway every 6 meetings at most. Quite easy to do this when you and your Therapist have your 'hows it going' reviews.

[Jenny]

Mary - I hope you've been able to speak to your counsellor about it to put your mind at rest :)

And yes i do also think it's important to have consent and review the consent. When i eventually brought the subject up AGAIN with my ex therapist she said something like "it's non-negotiable" and actually in hindsight that seems quite unfair. Even if i had signed something 18 months previous about being recorded (which i still don't think i did) then it should always be negotiable or at the very least talked about. I do understand the need for some therapists to record sessions for their training or whatever but i agree with everyone here that the client has to be happy with it also, as things should be done with the client's best interst at heart, etc etc

[miike]

Hi jenny,

I was shocked to hear about your experience with your therapist and the recordings. We had to record clients as a part of our course for personal development and to show we meet the necessary standards; to show we were competent. Initially I was worried about asking clients if I could record them but surprisingly most clients were ok with it.

We had a separate contract for recording and the client was given a copy of both. Even if a client did agree to being recorded and had signed the contract, it was made clear to them that it was perfectly ok for them to say no at any time to being recorded. The client could have any recording deleted at the end of the session if they wanted to.

Recording sessions with clients is an extremely useful way to improve as a counsellor but clients should never be put under any pressure to be recorded.

[Jenny]

Hi Mike

Yeah I agree.. the more I think about it the more annoyed i get about it really! She really had no right to brush over it like that and even to suggest there was no alternative.

Can definitely see the benefit in recording sessions though, especially as a trainee.. as long as it's done in the right way!

Good to have you here :)

Jenny

[Neil]

Well, my experience of recording sessions has been a little mixed. Whilst in training as a peer group we recorded sessions. These were always good to replay and see the changes in ourselves over the months of training.

So far have only recorded a session with one client. Was very explicit with the client that the recording was for my training and would be listened to by myself and a tutor, that there was no obligation and if at any time during the session a change of mind occurred I would stop the recording and delete it. This was about a year ago and the client left apparently very happy when we completed our work together.

I do though have a slight feeling that, maybe the client was not at the point where she could have said no. Maybe she said yes only to please me? Will never really know. This feeling has hindered me from requesting other clients for permission to record sessions.

I have though asked my supervisor if she's happy for our sessions to be recorded. Agreement was given and over the past 6 months have recorded each session, apart from the last one. Not too sure why I didn't then. These supervisor sessions are great to review and gain insights into my being with clients.

Almost at the end of my diploma and would then like to record sessions. But, as mentioned above not sure if this request is made at a first session and/or in a written contract if the client would really understand or recognise what they were agreeing to.

[Jenny]

Thanks for your thoughts Neil.. my ex therapist, when I questioned her about the recording, said that we discussed it in my first assessment session and that it was also in the written contract. Now, I can't remember her saying anything about it in the first session (and i dont think it's something i'd easily forget?) but when I finally found my written, signed contract.. i saw something in there that said something along the lines of..

.. that any recorded/written material about me would be used... etc etc

Now, i didn't realise that "any recorded material" meant that she was recording every session. I figured it meant that there may be some sessions where we may record me, with my consent, and should this happen, then that recorded material would be used as... etc.

To be honest I think that IF she had asked me if it's ok to record me, i guess i would have said yes anyway, maybe to please her.. or be the 'good girl' but if i really wasn't happy with it i probably wouldn't have gone back the following week, but that's just me! :surrender:

Either way i think it's really, really important to have it clearly in writing.. along with the fact that it's ok for the client to withdraw their consent (which apparently my counsellor wasn't ok with as she told me there was no choice!) at any time.. AND it should be talked about openly, at any time during the counselling but especially at the very beginning before that record button is pushed.

[Neil]

To be honest I think that IF she had asked me if it's ok to record me, i guess i would have said yes anyway, maybe to please her.. or be the 'good girl' but if i really wasn't happy with it i probably wouldn't have gone back the following week, but that's just me! :surrender:

Jenny, for me this is the issue that I currently struggle with. If I ask a new client if it is OK to record, even if I explain that they have the right to change their mind at any time, I am concerned that they will only say yes to please me and then not return - as when a lot of clients first come they do not yet have the self-confidence to speak what they really feel - hopefully that comes over time. So, I don't think it is just you. Be interested in any experiences others have of this.

Either way i think it's really, really important to have it clearly in writing.. along with the fact that it's ok for the client to withdraw their consent (which apparently my counsellor wasn't ok with as she told me there was no choice!) at any time.. AND it should be talked about openly, at any time during the counselling but especially at the very beginning before that record button is pushed.

Yes, I agree with your thoughts here. I feel very concerned, where you said, that your counsellor gave the impression there was no choice for you in the matter. I obviously don't know your counsellor, but it seems very self-centred of them to take this attitude. Maybe if they had been more open about recording there may have appeared a valid reason for it? Further training, etc, maybe?

I feel openness is a great key, in this matter, as in all things. Sure there will be some things that might not be shared by a counsellor about their personal life, but if it relates to what is going on in the counselling room, I feel openness, congruence is vital. How can the client be open with me, if I am hiding my way of working?

[Jenny]

Ahh yes Neil I agree.. openness is the way forward, although isn't always easy!

I hear where your fears are coming from, and agree that some clients may just go along with it to please, but i don't think that fear in itself should stop a counsellor from talking about recording sessions and recording the session should the client say it's ok etc. I mean, the client does need to take responsibility for their feelings and ability to talk about how recording feels to them.. if they're given the opportunity etc then i don't think it's a bad thing and a counsellor cannot spend their time second guessing whether a client is really happy with it or just going along with it etc. I'd imagine that most clients in that case (or maybe just me lol) would talk with their feet and although may say they're ok with it, just not turn up the 2nd week!

I can't remember what i wrote here about my ex therapist and her recording stuff, and to be honest can't be bothered to read what I wrote (I do waffle a lot lol). But basically my ex therapist claims she told me, in our first session, that she was recording all sessions. I don't remember this.. and in about week 3 i noticed the tape recorder so questioned her about it. She was very abrupt and just said "yes, i record all my clients". I didn't find it open for me to talk about and it took me WEEKS to raise the subject with her again (i guess this time my feet didn't do the talking as i stuck with her!). When i finally raised it again (I'd had a dream where someone else was in the room with us) she again brushed it off..

.. after MONTHS i raised the recording again and she said that "it's not negotiable" and that she had told me about being recorded, etc. I told her that actually i was ok with the actual act of being recorded but what i wasn't ok about was the lack of being able to talk about it. Actually i think it's at this point she said that it's not negotiable. I felt like a little child who was asking her parents to stay up later than my bed time! I wasn't actually asking for anything other than being able to talk about being recorded and how that was for me. I genuinely didn't mind about being recorded and in fact got used to the noise of the tape in the background.. and i knew she would only be using it for training, etc. none of that was an issue for me (although had it been then there was no room for me to question it).. but for me it was more how SHE dealt with it all.

So yes, definitely, being open to hearing what the client says/feels about being recorded and also being able to stop the tape should the client ask for it to be stopped (not that i did that).. would be very important, in my opinion :)